US Motorcycle Sales 1999-2016 (and beyond)

JustAnotherSquid

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Would it cost more? Sure. $2000 more (the cost difference between the RS660 and the Supersport)? Not even close.

Consider the fact that Suzuki is able to make money selling the SV650 for less than the Kawasaki Z650 and Yamaha MT-07.

Having been involved in manufacturing in a past life (including engine manufacturing), I'd bet the actual cost difference between a mid-size parallel twin and a V-twin is less than $200. So you're probably looking at an increase in MSRP of around $500.

Would the RS660 with a V-Twin be more appealing at $12,000 vs with a parallel twin at $11,500? When you're talking a premium Italian bike to begin with, the answer is 'hell yeah'.

But I'm just a pundit with an opinion and not a guy whose job is on the line doing actual product planning. ;)

edit - I'd bet the decision to go with a parallel twin was made as much for packaging, weight, and balance as much as (if not more than) cost. But again, see the previous paragraph.
 

bmart

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Not to make, but they wouldn't sell it that cheap. Just look at that Kawi two fitty.
 

JustAnotherSquid

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For all no one interested: over on the WERA forums initial race reports are rolling in on the RS660. To sum up most of what's been said:

  • They have a huge power advantage over the MT/SVs, but haven't done a good job exploiting it as they lack torque and therefore drive out of corners.
  • They have teething problems. Reliability has been an issue.
  • They handle like a "real" bike. MT/SVs apparently feel like budget bikes until you start upgrading things like the triple trees and the rear linkage (in addition to the suspension).
  • Best part: the RS660 is going to put pressure on Yamaha and Suzuki (edit - and maybe Kawasaki!) to make a better bike. People running the new Aprilia unanimously say that once the kinks are worked out, it will easily dominate the class.

If the last point were to convince Yamaha to make a "real" R7 and not an MT-07 with a fairing, that would be awesome. I am definitely interested in downgrading to a midsize twin as I want a bike that corners and stops, but am a wimp and don't need/want 140hp.
 
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JustAnotherSquid

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Looks like the R7 is definitely happening! They really should NOT use the MT-07 frame, which means they will use the MT-07 frame.


Well, let's hope the bike is better than the promotional video! It makes my brain itch and I think I lost 12 IQ points just watching it:


The fact that they are marketing it to young and female riders indicates pretty clearly that it will be an MT-07 with a fairing, and not an R with a parallel twin. :(
 

bmart

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It looks zoomy and it has an R in it. Let's wait and see.

Everything is marketed to women...or anyone who isn't a white middle aged guy...or one who identifys as such. I wouldn't let that influence the potential product. If companies don't follow suit to identity politics these days, they'll be cancelled.
 

JustAnotherSquid

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“This is the fourth straight quarter of strong sales numbers, indicating continued and growing interest in riding among new and returning riders,” said Erik Pritchard, MIC president and CEO. “Combine the new-motorcycle sales performance with the pace of tire sales and we know that more riders are putting on more miles."

 

bmart

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That is hard to believe. I rarely see a bike on public roads.
 

bmart

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Looks nice. Better be cheap considering they've sourced a lot of parts from existing bikes...and it is missing two cylinders. I'd go $7.5k, but it'll likely be $11k.

Used late model R6 will likely go way up now...
 

JustAnotherSquid

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If they price that at $11K it will be DOA. Guaranteed.

I bet comes in more like $8-9K. Looks like the existing MT-07 frame and swingarm with USD forks tacked on.
 

bmart

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While I hate parallel twins in general, I didn't mind the FZ-07 or MT??? that I rode. I'm slow and don't need a lot of power, but I do want good handling.
 

JustAnotherSquid

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While I hate parallel twins in general, I didn't mind the FZ-07 or MT??? that I rode. I'm slow and don't need a lot of power, but I do want good handling.

We may not agree on much but we agree 100% on that! :D The R7 may be my next track bike. We'll see how it does once it's been out for a year or two. The R9 (if it exists) may be a possibility too.
 
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JustAnotherSquid

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bmart

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The $ isn't bad, considering what people are willing to pay for things these days. Barely adjustable suspension? Steel frame? Gear indicator (for monkeys...)? Where's the BHP and torque curve chart...and comparison to R6? They're saying SuperSport...but it isn't likely an R6 killer. And did you notice "limited quantities?" What does that mean?
 

JustAnotherSquid

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Oh it's definitely not going to measure up to the R6 and I don't think anyone was realistically expecting that. It's more like an SV on steroids. And it's not going to be an RS660 killer either, but it might give it a run for it's money (especially given the price difference).

If Suzuki gave the same treatment to the SV then that bike would have real potential - and it would come in cheaper than the R7! (Given the current price difference between the MT-07 and SV650.)

I like gear indicators. Why not? It's not like you're losing anything by getting one. The electronics already know what gear you are in anyway, so adding the display to the dash is like fifty cents more. I'll pay that.
 

JustAnotherSquid

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As for a bike that would replace the R6: Since the MT-09 already has an AL perimeter frame, is available with premium suspension, has ~115hp, and costs $11K (with premium suspension), you can probably expect the R9 (if they make one) to be a closer match in terms of price and performance. An "R6 with torque" would be pretty sweet IMO.
 

JustAnotherSquid

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An even more awkward comparison is to the ZX-6R - the R7 is only $1200 cheaper than the Kawasaki! :oops:
 
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