Good training info and links

boike333

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After watching your on board 1 is later than what I marked, 2 about right but you throw it over from 1-2 really fast. So much to learn!
 

RocketDan

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Turn 1 sets up turn 3. Turn 1 is a slow corner and it is more important to setup for the drive out than trying to carry speed in. I square it off, I try to be parallel to the inside curbing on the inside. This allows me to get on the gas and flip over and drive past turn 2 setting me up for the turn in for 3.

As you start trail braking, turn 1 is an area where hare braking and trailing to the apex really helps the bike turn in and make the late apex.
 

boike333

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Thanks Dan. Yes I noticed that. T1 &13 is hard for me to trail brake into. T11 and 12 aren’t. I think it must be the angles of those turns and my inexperience. I can trail brake all day long on the street. On the track everything is so much faster and there are so many things to get right. Then again I’ve ridden on the street for 20 something years and I’ve only done 10 track days.
 

AndyMX47

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Turn 1 sets up turn 3. Turn 1 is a slow corner and it is more important to setup for the drive out than trying to carry speed in. I square it off, I try to be parallel to the inside curbing on the inside. This allows me to get on the gas and flip over and drive past turn 2 setting me up for the turn in for 3.

As you start trail braking, turn 1 is an area where hare braking and trailing to the apex really helps the bike turn in and make the late apex.
Any way to set up your go-pro so we can see your right hand and the track? Would be cool to see throttle/brake/cornering all going on at once. I too have issues trail braking at turn one - brake like mad, then wide open through the corner tells me I slowed down wayyy too soon and way too much. Granted I'm on a 65hp bike, but still. I think the trees at the end of the straight seem to get bigger at 100mph.
 

JustAnotherSquid

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Any way to set up your go-pro so we can see your right hand and the track? Would be cool to see throttle/brake/cornering all going on at once. I too have issues trail braking at turn one - brake like mad, then wide open through the corner tells me I slowed down wayyy too soon and way too much. Granted I'm on a 65hp bike, but still. I think the trees at the end of the straight seem to get bigger at 100mph.

It would be pretty cool to see that. Being someone that doesn't trail-brake at all it would be helpful to see.

edit - In the most recent video I posted, the RaceRender test, the bump in the kink knocked the camera down at 1:10 so you could see my hands. I just went back and rewatched it and saw that I was trail-braking most of the time? How weird is it that I was doing that and didn't even know it? Oh well, guess I'll have to come up with new and different excuses for being slow.

edit edit - it also pretty clearly shows I should probably use full throttle on the front straight. That could be a good idea. Yeesh.
 
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AndyMX47

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edit edit - it also pretty clearly shows I should probably use full throttle on the front straight. That could be a good idea. Yeesh.
Yeah, this was another practice drill. Ride a whole moto focusing on holding the throttle wide open. I have ridden entire races never going above 1/2 throttle and realized it on the last lap when all of a sudden you actually feel the throttle hit the stop. Gee, should I pay for 100 octane gas and have my cylinder ported, or turn this plastic twisty thing a little further, and roll through the corners a little faster.

I repeat: we suck.
 

JustAnotherSquid

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Yeah, this was another practice drill. Ride a whole moto focusing on holding the throttle wide open. I have ridden entire races never going above 1/2 throttle and realized it on the last lap when all of a sudden you actually feel the throttle hit the stop. Gee, should I pay for 100 octane gas and have my cylinder ported, or turn this plastic twisty thing a little further, and roll through the corners a little faster.

I repeat: we suck.

You probably don't want to unleash all 74hp the SV650 rips out all at once. Bad things could happen! Better to let them dribble out 10 or 20 at a time. :rolleyes:
 

bmart

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You're right. We suck. At least I do!

Regarding trail braking...we're all likely donig some of it, whether we realize it or not. From a safety standpoint, we should be doing it a lot more. It changes the geometry of the bike and pushes that front tire into the pavement. More greep (mechanical friction) is safer. Most front end crashes happen because of the release of greep too soon or too abruptly.
 

AndyMX47

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You're right. We suck. At least I do!

Regarding trail braking...we're all likely donig some of it, whether we realize it or not. From a safety standpoint, we should be doing it a lot more. It changes the geometry of the bike and pushes that front tire into the pavement. More greep (mechanical friction) is safer. Most front end crashes happen because of the release of greep too soon or too abruptly.
I need to slow my fork rebound so it takes 5 seconds for the forks to decompress.
 

boike333

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You're right. We suck. At least I do!

Regarding trail braking...we're all likely donig some of it, whether we realize it or not. From a safety standpoint, we should be doing it a lot more. It changes the geometry of the bike and pushes that front tire into the pavement. More greep (mechanical friction) is safer. Most front end crashes happen because of the release of greep too soon or too abruptly.
Really? Huh, I thought front end crashes happened from grabbing it too hard while in the turn or too abruptly going in? Again, I know nothing!
 

boike333

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And I disagree, none of the people I’ve ridden with here suck.

Hahaha, and I didn’t mean it like that I meant were a lot better than a lot of people. Of course there are a hell of a lot of people better than me too! Well everyone on this site anyway!
 

bmart

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They certainly can, but loading the tire and gradually making the greep from a changing ratio of braking and turning is the proper technique to keep you at/under 100% of available greep. You might hear it as Load the tire before Working the tire.

While incredibly helpful/safer on the street also, ti can be more challenging as the greep available can change due to the surface, imperfections, gravel, etc. So...that 100% available isn't always the same.
 

RocketDan

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Listen to Brad
Yeah, this was another practice drill. Ride a whole moto focusing on holding the throttle wide open. I have ridden entire races never going above 1/2 throttle and realized it on the last lap when all of a sudden you actually feel the throttle hit the stop. Gee, should I pay for 100 octane gas and have my cylinder ported, or turn this plastic twisty thing a little further, and roll through the corners a little faster.

I repeat: we suck.
Cylinder ported and race fuel. Duh!

Then you can twist the plastic thing 7/16 instead of 1/2
 

RocketDan

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I know Brad can be a little greepy, but you should listen to him.

Unfortunately my camera won’t catch my hands in the current location. And I don’t want to change it because then it’s in my way. Just assume I’m doing it all perfect ;)
 

RocketDan

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Thanks Dan. Yes I noticed that. T1 &13 is hard for me to trail brake into. T11 and 12 aren’t. I think it must be the angles of those turns and my inexperience. I can trail brake all day long on the street. On the track everything is so much faster and there are so many things to get right. Then again I’ve ridden on the street for 20 something years and I’ve only done 10 track days.

Your issue with Turn 1 and Turn 14 (I think that’s what you mean, last turn) could be an issue with your vision. Trail braking requires you to carry speed into the turn and slow down as you are turning. If you are not looking where you want to end up it can be difficult to do that. You will naturally slow down in a straight line to a pace that is comfortable, look around the corner and then turn. Both 1 and 14 are 90° Without a lot of space. So it’s easy to stare at the end of the track while in the braking zone.

I will look at the curbing at turn two as I’m in the braking zone for 1 which helps draw me into the turn. Turn 14 is a little harder since the corner worker station is on the inside. But I will look at the tires on the outside of the track by the end of the curbing, then shift up track at pit in as I’m nearing the apex.
 

boike333

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Your issue with Turn 1 and Turn 14 (I think that’s what you mean, last turn) could be an issue with your vision. Trail braking requires you to carry speed into the turn and slow down as you are turning. If you are not looking where you want to end up it can be difficult to do that. You will naturally slow down in a straight line to a pace that is comfortable, look around the corner and then turn. Both 1 and 14 are 90° Without a lot of space. So it’s easy to stare at the end of the track while in the braking zone.

I will look at the curbing at turn two as I’m in the braking zone for 1 which helps draw me into the turn. Turn 14 is a little harder since the corner worker station is on the inside. But I will look at the tires on the outside of the track by the end of the curbing, then shift up track at pit in as I’m nearing the apex.
Yep you nailed it! And you told me that last track day. It is so hard for me to look that far away like you said in 5 to look at the corner worker station to the right.

At two going into 1, it’s quite difficult. But I am working on that.

Thanks for the advice all!
 

AndyMX47

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Your issue with Turn 1 and Turn 14 (I think that’s what you mean, last turn) could be an issue with your vision. Trail braking requires you to carry speed into the turn and slow down as you are turning. If you are not looking where you want to end up it can be difficult to do that. You will naturally slow down in a straight line to a pace that is comfortable, look around the corner and then turn. Both 1 and 14 are 90° Without a lot of space. So it’s easy to stare at the end of the track while in the braking zone.

I will look at the curbing at turn two as I’m in the braking zone for 1 which helps draw me into the turn. Turn 14 is a little harder since the corner worker station is on the inside. But I will look at the tires on the outside of the track by the end of the curbing, then shift up track at pit in as I’m nearing the apex.
Super helpful, never thought of it like this, but makes total sense. Thank you!
 
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